Ornamented No.16

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  jch02140 1 year, 5 months ago.

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September 10, 2015 at 6:35 AM #23691

jch02140

This is named as Ornamented No.16 from Johnson (1865)

Any info is appreciated.


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September 10, 2015 at 12:35 PM #23701

Alan Jay Prescott

I never saw this face anywhere, myself. It is definitely very odd and well worth reviving, but it would need a complete set of glyphs, which would I expect be very hard to locate. This is a very difficult face to revive digitally, many many hours.


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September 11, 2015 at 5:08 AM #23720

Anna

I too have not seen this face before. My hunch is that is was imported by MSJ, probably from a French TF. With the important exception of National (Julius Herriet, 1856), MSJ introduced no known new faces until recruitment of Edwin Ruthven in 1846. The first face attributed to Ruthven by William E. Loy is dated 1869.

The “awkwardness” of this design suggests that it may have been introduced earlier than 1865. Specimens examined:

  • Hænel 1847
  • Bruce 1856
  • Boston 1856
  • Cincinnati 1857 (incomplete reprint)
  • Boston 1860
  • Bruce 1869–1875
  • MSJ 1869 (incomplete reprint)

It is not discussed by Nicolette Gray, which suggests that it was not distributed by TFs in the UK.

Conclusion. Sorry… Without a full specimen of this obscure typeface, revival seems to be a Lost Cause.


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September 30, 2015 at 10:17 PM #24706

jch02140

Hi Anna,

Just wondering if you can upload the commercial specimens you saw to flickr or dropbox? I am interested to see what other letters they shown.


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October 1, 2015 at 5:17 AM #24707

Anna

The only specimen I have seen of this face is the one you posted. I looked for it in the catalogs listed above and did not find it. Revival of this one is a Lost Cause.


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October 1, 2015 at 11:48 PM #24734

jch02140

I have some info on this typeface. It seems this type was also once available from Caslon in England (c1865) as Two Line Pica Ornamented No.5.

The 1887 H.W. Caslon catalog did show this typeface as Ornamented No.23 in 4 sizes.
Are there any copies of this catalog available anywhere or been digitized?


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October 3, 2015 at 4:30 AM #24766

Anna

Nicolette Gray illustrates an untitled single-letter specimen (B). She writes that Caslon showed it in c1865.¹

The only digitized H.W. Caslon catalogs I know are dated 1841, c1890 and 1915. The face that interests you is not shown in them. Revival of this one is a Lost Cause!

¹Gray, N. (1938): XIXth Century Ornamented Types and Title Pages, page 204/187. Faber and Faber Limited, London.


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October 3, 2015 at 9:10 PM #24790

jch02140

Thanks for the info. Ms Anna.

Just something I found earlier, still not much however.
The attached image here is shown in the Nicolete Gray’s 2nd Edition of her Nineteenth Century Ornamented Typefaces. She noted that Miller & Richard also had this type. Though not sure if there were/are any specimen books of them available…


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October 4, 2015 at 4:09 AM #24796

Anna

In 1878, Miller & Richard (Edinburgh) opened a San Francisco Branch managed by John J. Palmer. When it failed, Mr. Palmer partnered with a Mr. Rey and continued the operation as Palmer & Rey TF.

This face was not shown in P&R catalogs dated 1884, 1887 nor 1892. Most likely, it had been discontinued by M&R decades earlier.

There is virtually no hope of ever finding rare letters like Q, J, X, Z, etc. It is a LOST CAUSE! Let’s move on to one with available working specimens.


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November 15, 2015 at 12:21 PM #25875

jch02140

It looks like Bruce also carried this typeface at some point. I noticed that in their 1874 reissue of 1869 catalogue, there is a page showing of the typeface. Although there is no trade name given and they used different numbers for different sizes. Hence I am unsure if there is a patent associated with it…

I have attached the catalogue showing in this post.


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